DanteAmor
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| 07/25/2007 8:34 AM |
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Does magic need logic? Do we need a reason to make a card disappear? True magic, many will argue, will satisfy a current problem i.e. someone is hungry, magicians produces a sammich for that person.
Does magic need to satisfy something in order for it to be true magic? |
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linos
Ace of Hearts
Patter Count:26
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| 07/25/2007 9:05 AM |
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| its a good question...hm yes i think all happents for a reason!for the magician it must be so!but the magician will create illusions that seems impossible to the spectator so he/she will think that there is no logic way that that they saw could happend!confusing lol!unfortunally there cant be helpfull like the sammich exe.if you aren;t david blaine who make money out of coffee!but it will always be tricky to figure out why things just is so!good question dante amor |
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Eagle
Forum Moderator
King of Hearts
Patter Count:229
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| 07/25/2007 10:59 AM |
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| i think thats a good question dante and i see it like this. while satisfying someones need makes it even more enjoyable, magic can not be performed just to satisfy a specific need because it is very hard to know what every person wants. you cant carry a steak in your back pocket to help feed a hungry person because the guy to his left might just want a coke. when you use the word "magic" its generalized it just means doing something impossible or miraculous or whatever you want it to be but you cant just say "magic: giving people what they want, when they want it" because if you could do that then that truly is real "magic" |
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PalaceGuard
Joker
Patter Count:157
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| 07/25/2007 4:50 PM |
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I'm starving, I'll have a turkey and swiss with mayo.
I don't think magic really needs logic but using logic can make your effect seem more magical.
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Black Mage
Forum Moderator
Queen of Spades
Patter Count:55
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| 07/25/2007 7:55 PM |
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Personally I don't think the trick should have much in the way of lodgic. It should be Spontainious and yet clear. Like say making a spoon stir coffee with out actually holding onto the spoon. *a device not made by me but i do this often on my own* or making sugar apear from one hand to another and pour into the coffee. *Darwin's 101 thumb tip tricks* Or stabbing a fork through your finger then removing it bloodlessly and with ease. *Ultimate street magic the book* why would you do it? There is no logic in my opinion. You just do it. Yes it is logical that you would choose a restaraunt or cafe for these type of magic. instead of course a theater. In a theater you would prolly wanna do something more stage aproprate like going into a large microwave white and cook yourself and walk out black. *Nathan Burton* But all things in all. I think all magic follows the same pattern.
Anyone actually pay attention during the prestige. Here's the quote for the frist part of the movie.
b
Every magic trick consists of three
part, or acts...
The first part is called the Pledge...
...the magician shows you something
ordinary-
A deck of cards, ar a bird...
...or a man.
He shows you this object, and pledges
to you its utter normality...
Perhaps he asks you to inspect it...
...to see that it is indeed real...
...unaltered...
...normal.
But, of course, it probably isn't...
The second act is called the Turn...
The magician takes the ordinary
something...
...and makes it do something
extraordianry.
Now you're looking for the secret.
But you won't find it...
Because of course, you're not really
looking...
...you don't really want to know.
...you want to be fooled.
But you couldn't clap yet. Because
making something disappear isn't
enough... you have to bring it back.
That's why every magic trick has a
third act. The hardest part..,
...the part we call...
...The Prestige.
Like the fork trick aforementioned, You show an ordinary fork. *the pledge* then you shove it through your finger *the turn* Lastly you pull out the fork unharmed *Tada! the prestige*
I think what you use and where you use it should be logical but what you do magic wise should be quite illogical. Because what is logical about shoving a fork though your finger?
What do you think?
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DanteAmor
Forum Moderator
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| 07/26/2007 3:00 PM |
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The prestige was a decent movie but to relate it to magic, even if it was a magic movie, is a bit too much. To talk about the "prestige, the turn" and whatever is a bit...well, overdoing it. Not EVERY effect has those three phases and that does not take away from effects. Logic only strengthens the magic. Check out Tim Ellis Run Around Sue Cups and Balls. His end was logically set, he filled in the need. Its not always a problem but a need.
Bringing in Logic to your magic may separate people from thinking youre someone who can do corny tricks to someone who is truly gifted, though many points can counterargue (steve shaw bending spoons).
Magic may not need logic but it will definitely strengthen it. It will make what you do seem a bit more real, whether thats a good thing or not is for another discussion. There is no logical reason for someone to shove a fork into their finger, possibly there is but for the current discussion i say nay, so why do it? While many may say its magical since you healed yourself you are doing it on your terms, your grounds and whether or not your audience sees it that way thats what it is. People perform these illogical pieces not for the sake of magic or belief but for fun/entertainment. Magic is about entertainment but what does magic become when you add logic? A miracle?! |
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PalaceGuard
Joker
Patter Count:157
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| 07/26/2007 7:37 PM |
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I think I understand.
Example #1
Magician puts an egg in a bowl and covers the bowl with a silk. waves his wand over the silk, removes the silk to reveal that the egg disappeared. Logical? Magical? Entertaining?
Example #2
Magician puts an egg in bowl and covers the bowl with a silk. waves his wand over the silk, removes the silk to reveal ... an egg salad sammich. Logical? Magical? Entertaining?
Good points on both sides. Could it be then that the answer lies wihtin the personal style of the magician?
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Eagle
Forum Moderator
King of Hearts
Patter Count:229
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| 07/26/2007 8:46 PM |
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| who cares? as long as he doesnt waste any eggs |
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DanteAmor
Forum Moderator
Patter Count:167
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| 08/04/2007 11:57 AM |
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Posted By PalaceGuard on 07/26/2007 7:37 PM
I think I understand.
Example #1
Magician puts an egg in a bowl and covers the bowl with a silk. waves his wand over the silk, removes the silk to reveal that the egg disappeared. Logical? Magical? Entertaining?
Example #2
Magician puts an egg in bowl and covers the bowl with a silk. waves his wand over the silk, removes the silk to reveal ... an egg salad sammich. Logical? Magical? Entertaining?
Good points on both sides. Could it be then that the answer lies wihtin the personal style of the magician?
Yeah, it does lie within the personal style of the magician but I think a bit of logic, not an extreme amount, in any persons performance may strengthen their routine.
The first example to me is simply entertaining. While it is "magic" in the commercial entertaining sense it isnt logical. Why have an egg disappear? I am not saying its bad at all. Still a bit amazing. But look at example 2. It is logical, entertaining and magical. You start your routine asking if someone is hungry or that your hungry and you get a bowl. Dump the egg inside with bread, possibly, and it turns into the sammich with just a wave of your hand. It filled a need in a magical entertaining way.
Does logic in your performance separate the magic makers from the punks with tricks? Dont know.
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Eagle
Forum Moderator
King of Hearts
Patter Count:229
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| 08/04/2007 2:31 PM |
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| hmmmm i understand where you are coming from but its seems like if no one is hungry your screwed know what i mean? you can guarantee that your logic will even be relevant to certain people |
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Bill Montana
Patter Count:9
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| 09/30/2007 3:34 PM |
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| Yes, It does need logic. why would you do something like put your hand in to your pocket. unless you were putting something away or getting something out. just going to the pocket for some magic dust is a little fishy. So yes, why do something that does not have reverence to the effect? Use logic and your effect will be more believable. |
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Eagle
Forum Moderator
King of Hearts
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| 10/02/2007 9:34 PM |
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| i understand what your saying billy but your taking the question in the wrong way i understand you need logic to justify your actions when it comes to performance but do you need logic to justify the performance as a whole? |
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Mozex
Patter Count:15
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| 01/15/2009 6:28 PM |
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Magic is pure logic...
logic is the thing we Magicians need to cover up.
And to cover logic up, we need to use more logic.
So yes Magic needs logic, without logic everyone would see how you did it. and thats not Magic, Youtube is full of things like that |
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